Robert Lustig is an American physician and researcher who has written extensively about how our modern food environment is poisoning us. His 2012 book “Fat Chance” was a New York Times bestseller. He recently came out with a new book, “Metabolical”, in which he lays out in detail the science of how and why modern processed foods destroy our health. He also explains why the food industry, along with our governments and co-opted scientists and dieticians, are doing their best to keep us eating things that make us fat and diabetic and that cause us to die prematurely.
In this interview I talk to Robert about what it is specifically that makes processed foods so unhealthy, and why there are such strong vested interests involved in getting us to eat unhealthy foods. We also discuss what can be done, both at an individual level and a societal level, to reverse the health crisis wrought by processed foods.
Hi Sebastian,
I think there’s a number of things that need straightening out:
1) The issue of fibre: There are some in the carnivore community who claim that fibre is not necessary at all. These videos explain their views quite well. What do you think of their arguments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGbpOtg9TQI&list=WL&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SYgtNG71j0&list=WL&index=5
2) Should processed meat (Salami, sausages/hotdogs etc) be treated the same as other processed foods, especially if they are very low in carbs/added sugars? Again, Dr Ken Berry has an insight into this question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmS4aMvKcWY&list=WL&index=6
3) In terms of digestion, doesn’t eating a potato or a candy bar both end up as glucose molecules in the GIT and therefore shouldn’t the goal be keto instead of low carb? What if you eat low carb but high fat, wouldn’t that be worse (from a biochemical point of view) than a moderate carb-low fat diet because of insulin/lipogenesis effect?
Lastly I was wondering if you had any advice out there for people who have a lot of sugar cravings – do you recommend any alternatives/snacks? Thats the hardest problem for me when doing a keto/low carb diet.
Sweet cravings are common with magnesium deficiency, which is very common.
Thank you again Sebastian for excellent content!
Concerning processed meat… No 2
I always enjoy Dr Ken Berry.
But, we have to define what “processed” actually means to make such statements.
Meats is very often subject to all kinds of strange ways of manipulation to make it appear more appetizing, or a bigger quantity and so forth.
Look at the ingredients list of a “hot dog”. My oh my… All kinds of E-numbers, starch, wheat, dextrose, stabilizers. etc
(The swedish classic “Dennis Hot Dog” contains 34% meat only… )
So, obviously there are processed food items that are OK and there are those.that are poisonous. We better not lump these.items together under one label.
That was a very interesting discussion, but one thing that struck me was Dr. Lustig’s claim that dietary fibre was essential for the health of our gut bacteria. I recalled a lecture by Dr. Paul Mason (link below) in which he cited studies that indicated that fibre was not required in a healthy diet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqUO4P9ADI0&t=24s
It would be interesting to have your views on what Dr. Mason argued.
Not impressed with Dr Lustig. I found his smug attitude a bit much.
It’s the people we don’t like who are most likely to have information we need. Who are very likable that we find have lied to us repeatedly? Dr. Fauci and Dr. Walensky.
It would be helpful to also look at industrialized farming practices. Perhaps the emphasis on speed of production results in a low level of micronutrients in our food. Maybe pasture-raised animals provide better food sources. Maybe taking more time to grow wheat instead of heavy use of fertilizer would result in more micronutrients in our diet. Since I’ve been making sure to eat magnesium-rich foods, my sweet cravings have vanished.
Iodine, chromium, magnesium, and vitamin K2 are common micronutrient deficiencies in people eating northern European diets. These deficiencies impact cardiovascular health and insulin resistance.
The vegetarian diet can lead to deficiency in calcium and iron, but that’s not caused by industrialized food production.
Lustig’s demonization of the “food industry” as an evil empire that knowingly poisons people is bordering on the ridiculous. Sure they sponsor research that supports their position, but given that most dietary research, regardless of what it supports is epidemological garbage – cholesterol is bad, salt is bad, cholesterol is OK, salt is OK and on and on.
And then, his BIG solution is to end subsidies on corn, wheat and soy !! And it is not done because Big Oil, Big Pharma and Big Food buy congressman. He wants to get together experts (himself included) to decide what people should eat, and then “reward” food companies for producing the right stuff – sounds like another subsidy racket.
One thing that worries me about the demonization of “processed food” is that longevity has increased considerably during the period that modern food processing and delivery has come in.
In regards to the growing problem of obesity, there is something more to it than too much sugar in the food. Something is making people eat more. Lower levels of exercise leading to disregulated set points is one idea. Another is Michael Eades proposal that metabolism of unsaturated fats alters regulation of mitochondrial function.
